Dungeon Finder – Becoming Part of the Problem

Dungeon Finder, so far, has been pretty successful for me.  I don’t use it a lot. I had been in maybe a dozen groups total with a couple of different characters in the mid-30s to the mid-60s.  But it has been fun.

I’ve healed with my resto spec’d druid.

I’ve tanked with my feral druid.

Heck, I’ve even healed with my feral druid.

That worked well enough except in that group that was me and four death knights.  Those in the DPS roles felt that they could tank too, so they all tried to be the tank off an on and I only had enough mana to really keep one tank alive.  (Somebody needs to take “death grip” away from certain death knights, I swear.  It does not belong in your rotation if you’re in the DPS role in an instance.)  And even then, the person in the actual tank role was good and we decided just to let the suckers die if they wanted to yank mobs off the tank until they figured out that wasn’t a good idea.

My overall impression has been of a nifty, quick way to get into a dungeon without requiring a lot of effort or much beyond very basic player skills.  Knowing what the tank, the healer, and the DPS are supposed to do seems generally to be enough.

Of course, I had yet to test this impression out at the highest levels.  The original and Outlands content does not, perhaps, represent the cutting edge of this tool and its use.

So on Saturday I decided to get out my main character of old, my retribution spec’d paladin Vikund, and give it a try.

Unfortunately, suffused with the sense of easiness that my lower level experiences gave me as well as the fear of long queue times for DPS characters, I decided to put him out in the healing role.

Now, I wasn’t totally unprepared for the role.  I had bought the ability to have a secondary talent spec.  I had at some distant past date gone to Elitist Jerks and read up on how to spend my talent points.  I had even stowed away some paladin healer gear… the stuff with +int and mana per 5 seconds stats on them, right?

So I was, perhaps, a step or two ahead of merely having my own hat that said “Healer” on it in lights so you can heal after dark when the mobs are much less likely to aggro on you.

And, to a certain extent, I figured I was probably getting in over my head.  So I went and downloaded the addon HealBot, tinkered with it for about 5 minutes, and figured I was good to go.

I brought up the dungeon finder and put myself in as healer for a Northrend heroic instance please.

And I was very soon granted my wish.

First up, The Occulus.

Erf.  Not exactly the first instance I wanted to take on in this role.  Not that I dislike the instance as much as some people do, but it is a bit different.

I got in, looked around, and noticed that the tank was already running around the first arc of the instance, collecting up mobs and down to about half health.  Well crap, 10 seconds in and I am already behind.

So I go trotting after him.  I caught up with him when he was at about 25% health and had most of the initial host of bad guys on him.  I planted myself and got off a Flash of Light and then a Holy Light as he continued running towards me.  As the Holy Light hit, I was greeted with the words “Changed Target” over the head of seemingly every mob he had in tow.  I’m the new target.  And they were all nice and close, so they turned and stomped me into jelly before turning back to the tank.

The tank died as well at just about the point when the DPS team shows up.  They died mostly of surprise I think.

One of them asked, “What happened?”

The tank replied to the group, “The fucking pally isn’t healing!” and left the group.  And then so did everybody else.

Okay, maybe I was not ready for heroics in prime time.  Obviously there was something more to this than just dropping a heal now and again.  I went repair and think.

I decide to back off a notch or two.  I brought up the dungeon finder again for a random Northrend instance, non-heroic please.

I quickly got an instance, the Halls of Lightning.  Okay, I’d been here.  We had done most of this with a 4 person group way back when.  The rest of the group was 77-78, almost all in green gear, while I was this level 80 almost all in purple.  “This should be easy!” I thought, “And they should all be in awe of me in any case, epic god that I am!”

I dropped Blessing of Kings on everybody and had a little drink while I waited for the fun to commence.

“i would like greater blessing of might pls” said the tank, which I had to admit was most polite thing I had heard so far.

I hit him with Blessing of Might because I didn’t have the reagent for greater on me.  I accidentally tossed it in the bank when I was clearing bags and swapping gear.  No big deal though, it is the same effect with just a different duration.  I had no problem keeping and eye on it and refreshing it more often.

The tank announced “how about a greater blessing”

So I started to type in pretty much what I wrote above.

However, I have to guess that my lack of immediate obedience to this request was yet another sin on my part, because in about as much time as it took him to type it out, he said, “well i don’t play with cheapass pallies” and left the group.

So much for politeness.

The DPS guys, who hadn’t said a word, left as well, and I was back where I started.

Dungeon finder, dungeon finder, find me an instance!  I asked for another one, no heroics please.

And there I was in the Trial of the Crusader.  Hrmm.

Trial of the Crusader isn’t heroic, but it is a step up from the average 5 person instance in Northrend.  Again, I’ve done this one and sort of know the drill.

When I arrived the group appeared to have already done the jousting part of the event and was waiting to jump in on the first three bosses.  I hit everybody but the tank with greater Blessing of Kings.  The tank got greater Blessing of Might.  I wasn’t going to sin in that regard again.  Of course, he then asked me for Kings.  Sure, whatever.  I drank up, got myself ready.

The tank ran out to engage and we began.

I put out one heal and had the second one coming but the tank was already dead.  But he wasn’t too dead to say “You suck!” almost right away on dying.  I left the group before the bad guys came to get me.  Afterward I wondered if I should have asked what happened to the last healer.

So up to that point my actions ruined instances for 12 strangers.  According to Recount, none of them were from my server, which no doubt explained the lack of follow-on tells about how badly I suck.

I decide to put away my healing toys, turn of Healbot, get out my DPS gear, and go queue up with the rest of the DPS players.

One, non-heroic, DPS seating, if you please dungeon finder.

And, honestly, it did not take long for a spot to appear.

As soon as we arrived in the zone the tank announced that they were farming for a specific item and that was reserved for the healer and if we had a problem with that we could leave right now.

I groaned, thinking that here was going to be another social nightmare.

He linked the item in chat, and it was a caster trinket, something I was unlikely to bid on given my performance so far during the day.  I figured I would stay.

This was another healer/tank group that just needed DPS to fill out the party.  So while I might crow about being the top of the chart when it came to damage, both in absolute and DPS terms, the tank held aggro and the healer kept everybody alive.  I could have put out considerably less hurt and we would have been fine.

We went through the battles without issue.  Lots of purple items dropped, not one of which was of use to me, so I passed on most everything.  However the trinket they wanted did not drop.

So when we were done, the tank asked if we wanted to run it again.  By the time he asked that the other two DPS had left.  I said I would stick around for another.

We picked up two new DPS for the team and kicked off again.

I made my statement about me being able to put out less damage in the first group based on what happened in the second.  My DPS brethren weren’t as apt this time, (the tank was in second place when it came to damage) so fights took a bit longer.  Not that it changed much.  On the last fight there were a couple of deaths because we didn’t totally steamroll the black knight, but we still won the first time out.

Still no trinket for the healer, while I passed on everything again.  They wanted to go again, and I would have stayed, but we had run the instance twice in an hour and were on some sort of cool down.

I called it a day after that run.  Best to leave on a success I suppose.

Such was my experiences trying out dungeon finder at level 80.  Sorry to those whose instances I ruined.  I think I’m just going to have to work on the regular group to get them to come back from the horde side if I want to run heroics.

28 thoughts on “Dungeon Finder – Becoming Part of the Problem

  1. TK

    Groups like that are what caused me to quit WoW. Not your of the story, but all the people who take basic 5 man’s way too seriously. 80 druid and 80 priest on Kargath, Horde side just sitting there collecting dust. The first month was w/o WoW was difficult, but really don’t miss it too much. This article just reinforced my decision to leave WoW. lol


  2. Bhagpuss

    Great read.

    Sums up many of the reasons why I’m out of WoW and wary of the general direction both it and other MMOs seem to be going. Everything’s too fast, too impersonal, too serious and yet too trivial all at the same time.

    I guess the thing that really puzzles me about this is how has that become the model for commercial success? How did this kind of impatient, demanding, obsessive gameplay attract and hold millions of people who previously didn’t play MMOs when a slower, more thoughtful approach only drew thousands?


  3. Wilhelm2451 Post author

    Well, I’m not that down on the whole thing. As I pointed out, everything at lower levels has been fun, even the Death Knight escapade.

    The level 80 runs were an educational experience, and I am going to bet that each of the people who were annoyed with me had been conditioned by past experiences to act that way, probably by people just like me who walked up and were still figuring out their roles.

    I am going to guess, for example, that there is a “standard” way to handle heroic Occulus and that I blundered in on things without a clue and messed up somebody’s careful plan.

    And, of course, I was conditioned by my third try as well. I just dropped out… though I still wonder if the first… well, previous… healer did the same.

    Then the last group went quite well. I would have stuck around and done instances with them for a while. But I am very group loyal.


  4. ericTheFrog

    There are moe than a few tanks that are full of themselves. If the tank leaves your still at the top of the Queue, just be patient you’ll have a shiny new tank, hopefully with a better attitude.

    Also, keep an eye on which server the folks with the attitude come from, I swear I can guess the server now just based on how they treat others in the group.


  5. Coppertopper

    Still don’t see how the title of the post relates to the post itself. You got into 4 instance groups in the time it would have taken 1 to get together before the DF went live. The DF isn’t at fault for the player base. I imagine in the long run you will get the same ratio of bad pugs to good ones now as you did before patch 3.2.


  6. Kevin

    All too common a tale, and more fuel for my thesis that “The Patient” is the most ironic title in all of gaming.

    My game plan was to be gearing up my tree druid via heroics and getting him into the raid rotation, but that’s totally stalled out as I find I just don’t have the stomach for healing pugs.


  7. Wilhelm2451 Post author

    @Coppertopper – I think you’re assuming I am saying dungeon finder is a problem. It is not. It is a tool. Other people… strangers with little investment in each other… is. I joined in with the other people at level 80 and thus became part of the problem. Those first three groups that I complained about would no doubt have a few choice words about me as well.

    And I’d say that I am already well ahead in the good/bad ratio vs. pugs. It is just that at 80, things are a bit more challenging at level than they seem to be at the lower levels these days. So at lower levels people figuring out their role as they go along isn’t such a big deal.

    So if you’re reading my statement as something bad about dungeon finder, I am sorry for the confusion. The tool is most excellent… it is just people that suck… and that includes me.

    @ErictheFrog – I have noticed the server/asshat relationship in battlegrounds, so you may have a point there.


  8. bluelinebasher

    Ah, TAGN for a reason. Great read! Waiting for the “Worst Pally Ever” remark like when I didn’t feel like twisting in DAoC.


  9. KD

    I guess you’re just unlucky with your groups. I have run hundreds of heroics on 3 of my 4 80s as dps (warrior, paladin, warlock), and generally they’re alright. These days, everybody is so geared that the heroics are pretty easy. Even the ICC ones are doable.

    I just keep my expectations reasonable; this way I will be pleasantly surprised if the run turns out to be actually smooth. You might want to try dps for the time being – generally, I don’t find it to take all that long to get a group as one.


  10. Morph

    There are days where the LFD tool serves you groups like the 1st one you mentioned with idiotic tanks / dps etc.. And there are days that things go really smoothly.

    Just try it a few more times. You’re bound to run into a group with an overgeared 45k health tank and you’ll only have to use a few flashes of light ;).


  11. kaozz

    You are going to meet a lot of jerks some days. Sorry to hear you had such bad luck. Don’t let it scare you off from healing if you want to do the role. Me- I would have let him die if he had a massive pull and the group wasn’t ready yet. If the tank then leaves.. well you did yourself a favor ;)

    Honestly, I don’t play as much as I did. I still like it, I am rather bored too, but the community is also really horrific and annoying at times.

    Just get some tough skin and dish it back to them, as a healer you will get blamed for a lot. I also don’t take any crap from random jerks in pugs either. I don’t log in to be someones verbal punching bag. Another group is minutes away as a healer :D Heck even as dps it’s not really that long of a wait.


  12. zathrus

    Interesting read.

    Is it really that bad. I am a slow levelling tank and and thus a bit worried about getting a bad reaction from others. Since the dungeon finder came out it has been good to actually do the dungeons at their level (and actually do them at all in most cases). I have not had that many issues, however the other day I was doing UK will a friend and I had my first bit of rage from others.

    Overall I like it as I had never managed to get into groups for instances. The issue I find is that most of the other groupies are not from my server which makes the possibility of grouping again with people a lot less likely. My guild is not huge as guilds go but is more relaxed with my wife being more hard-core than me. The off-server groups mean thats an issue for your own server. When I started playing you used to find new people in instances to group with; these you later looked up for further instances, guilds and eventually raids.

    Don’t get me wrong I do like it but just think in following on from the main article this is a further issue.



  13. Wilhelm2451 Post author

    Well, part of what I was getting across is that I too am an idiot, breezing into heroic dungeons and thinking I could be the healer without much… well any… practice healing as a paladin.

    When I switched back to DPS, I was competent and would likely of not taken any crap I didn’t deserve. But at the same time I got a good group that I would have happily grouped with again. It is too bad that there isn’t something like a “favored group member” list option for dungeon finder that would get you back with people with whom you can work.

    And, of course, there is the object lesson of “make the world a better place and don’t behave like this.” The guy who called me a cheapass probably had an easy instance run ahead of him with a level 80 healing him. Even without experience, I knew that instance. Maybe he got somebody better next, maybe he got somebody worse. Only the dungeon finder knows for sure.


  14. Scott

    The in Occulus was not your fault. Even putting aside the fact they should have waited, a tank that loses threat to a healer, especially a paladin, at that point in the fight is to blame not the healer.

    The TOC issue could be one of two things.

    You might need to work on your rotation. Pally healing is not as simple as it used to be. My wife actually knows better than I do, but there are interactions with your judgements, beacon of light, and divine plea. I know she was trying to heal on her pally just spamming flash of light, and it didn’t work very well.

    The other reason could be that the tank was undergeared, and taking a lot more damage than they should be. TOC can be a healing challenge, especially on heroic. The last fight in particular is pretty much a dps race to burn the boss down before the debuffs stack to the point that the damage can’t really be healed through. The wrong combination of classes for the champion fight can be rough too.


  15. Toldain

    Similar things have developed with the shard dungeons in EQ2. I think the problem is expectations: Many of the players have done the same dungeon hundreds of times in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. If you aren’t up on that way, WHAT’S YOUR PROBLEM!!?

    This is a problem for someone who’s taken a hiatus from the game, or has just leveled to 80. Nobody will explain the fight or the strat, you’re just supposed to know.


  16. Ponder

    TAGN, I have the same experience.

    I’ve basically stopped the lvl 80 endgame stuff because the obnoxious behaviour of people. However, I have found that the 1-79 content is fine and in spirit with what a RP game should be.

    On a deeper level (which is never discussed), I believe Blizzard realise the game has passed its peak and is on the decline. The dungeon finder is REALLY a fixup to prevent server mergers (ie. so people can do the core content = dungeons). Server mergers are a public sign of game DEATH.


  17. zathrus

    Ponder. Do you think with progress with hardware they could merge servers into larger ones and thus make it so you had most of your randoms from your server?


  18. Eli

    I enjoyed reading the post. it’s nice to know that others are having similar experiences. suffer well! :-)
    don’t feel bad either, i see this behavior all the time.
    i was in a group for reg FoS the other day with a tank who was obviously a “raider” and a noob healer. everything was ok, till the tank ran by a mob and it agro’d on the healer and we wiped. a vote to kick the healer was initiated and i voted no. then the tank started talking trash to the healer and when i tried to defend the healer i got booted!


  19. *vlad*

    You didn’t do anything wrong, except perhaps trying a new spec in a pug.
    Maybe you should learn what Blessings to give what classes/specs (applies to your dps Paladin as much as your Holy), but even so, no tank should be asking for Might over Kings, and secondly, the guy who quit because you gave him a normal rather than a Greater Blessing was a total jerk: 10 mins as opposed to 30 minutes. I guess he didn’t know that was the only difference.

    As far as your Oculus experience, the tank was totally to blame, not you. If you pull mobs with healer aggro, and in this case 2 spells, then he obviously has no clue how to tank.

    Whenever you join a group that is already in progress, it generally means that either the tank isn’t good enough, or the healer. It’s a ‘Warning, Will Robinson’ moment.
    You didn’t comment on the tank’s health, but even with 20k health, I would query his gear/spec if you really only had time for one heal.


  20. SynCaine

    Man I am totally resubbing to WoW now. DF here I come! Oh wait… it’s not that DF is it… nm.

    This is a side effect of making everything a faceroll though, people expect to faceroll 100% of the time, and god forbid anything of any challenge pops up, it’s time to ragequit the group.

    The same thing happened in 2005, only then people would ragequit after the 7th wipe on the 2nd boss, not after one missed buff 2 seconds in. We still called them emo and went back to our raid, wiping for the 53rd time on Vael. Nothing beats 20 seconds of a fight and 10 minutes of running back/buffing. Ah the good old days.


  21. Herb O

    Ive rsubbed to wow but have been playing casually with a friend, were both dual speced, one spec for dungeon me as tank and him healer, nother as just straight dps when questing.

    So far our pug dps has been solid, except for one warlock when we were going through ubrs who had no talent points spent and didnt know what rain of fire was, and a dk who didnt use pestilence and didnt use diseases, just blood boil spam.

    I want things to be challenging and all that, but my pet peeve is when people dont know there class, it irks me so much:P And when my former main was a dk and my friends is a lock, it makes it even worse:P


  22. rustyfingers

    I haveve got no idea why people loves to play WOW honestly, I took the 10 days trial last week, rolled a rogue, soled outdoors upto 15 and i must said I was pretty impressed by the game . Then I entered a dungeon for the first time using the group finder tool….

    Lol, what a joke; when you come from games like EQ1 where knowing how to play his class in a group, no matter the level ,is important and then when you arrive in an instanced WOW dungeon with some dumbass tank who zerg as fast as possible and end up being dead in less than 5 minutes, you know what kind of gamers you re dealing with.

    Or when you see the healer leaving group without a word in a middle of a fight once the first named is down and they got their loot, what the hell is that ?

    Is it all what WoW have to offer : mindless instance grinding, with no communication and no challenge up to lvl 80 ???

    Well, I think I’m gonna pass on this one, its a shame because this game have great graphics, a great interface, zones well done but when you dumb down a game in order to attract always more and more people in it, its pretty bad,


  23. Wilhelm2451 Post author

    @Rustyfingers – If you choose to make it an uncommunicative instance grind, that is probably more a matter of your choice than Blizzard’s. I don’t see that the game forces you to play that way. Some people form up regular groups, join guilds, and that sort of thing.

    I seem to recall people in EQ not knowing how to play their class, especially at level 15. But we all wear rose-colored glasses on some subjects.


  24. Justin

    The dungeon finder is an awesome tool, and despite being burned out on WoW, I will likely not join any other MMO until such a tool exists. It is such a huge time saver and gets you into instances like never before.


  25. Justin

    I would also add that after running hundreds of heroics this way, 85% of them are successful/uneventful. Yes there are still the bad ones (and they tend to be _really_ bad), but I’ve also been able to power through some instances by just having a competent tank, even when the healer/other dps are a bit lacking. As was pointed out, you end up running a LOT more instances than ever possible before, so you take the good with the bad…and the bad isn’t really the fault of the tool…


  26. Stu


    This can be overcome quite easily with a more casual focused Guild. One that is running for the fun and not the HC status or challenge.

    Attitude and expectations is the difference, even casual guilds will most likely one day want to “try” heroics…it’s just that they consider and have time for everyone to learn and have fun :)

    Not worth leaving a game you enjoy otherwise imo, just have to shop around a bit to find the right kind of people to play with…

    Just sayin’ :)



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