The Return of the Stripper

Video safe for work, it is just music.

That is the song that came to mind when I saw the CCP Dev Blog go up about a return to the skill stripping plan, though Smed over using the word “hardcore” and “extremely deep” yesterday might have influenced that line of thought.  Anyway, the whole thing is a bit lurid, something of a tease, and not making everybody in the community happy.

Officially CCP is calling this Skill Trading.  This is the ability to strip skill points from a character in 500,000 SP chunks and sell them on the open market.

For lore reasons this may hurt a bit...

For lore reasons this may hurt a bit…

There seems to be a couple of reasons behind this move.

The first was articulated by CCP Quant at EVE Vegas, where he said the desire going forward was to have players able to create as many of the items in the New Eden economy as possible, including skills… and, apparently, skill points.  This seems to fit withing that over-arching goal.

The second is the classic new player complaint about their inability to “catch up” to older players.  I’ve seen that come up any number of times, the feeling that skill points are the levels of EVE Online and that people who show up late are being unfairly penalized by a system where time alone is the only way to grind up the skill point scale.

And, true enough, no day one newbie is going to be flying a titan or a faction battleship or even a strategic cruiser most likely.  Then again, no day one newbie is going to have the ISK to buy a titan or a faction battleship or a strategic cruiser… or a 500K SP bundle, which is bound to be a bit pricey… not unless they also buy some PLEX to boost up their bank balance.

And therein lies the rub, as the whole discussion gets into the “Pay to Win” arena.  There was enough push back on this idea when CCP broached it initially a couple months back that I thought they might shelve it, but now it is slated for the February 9th release.

The argument against does seem pretty clear.  You can take real world money and, through some process, turn that into skill point advancement for your character.  You are, essentially, buying levels and, while CCP isn’t selling them directly to you, they make money along the way and thus leveraging new players for fun and profit.  I’m sure the #ResistCapitalism team would have some choice words about that situation.

On the flip side CCP makes it quite clear that they are not creating skill points out of thin air.  A quote from the Dev Blog:

It’s very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system – training.

The sum total of skill points in New Eden won’t change inflate because of this, players will simply be trading skill points amongst themselves. [And, as noted in the comments, the total number of SP in game may actually go down a bit.]

Also, for those dying to spend money to advance their skill point total, there is already the character bazaar where you can buy and sell characters for ISK, something that has been around for years without much in the way of objections.

The skill point injectors also will favor new players, so this won’t be just a way for those “rich” in skill point to get richer.  The injectors have diminishing returns based on how many skill points you already have:

  • < 5 million total skill points = 500,000 skill points per injector
  • 5 million – 50 million total skill points = 400,000 skill points per injector
  • 50 million – 80 million total skill points = 300,000 skill points per injector
  • > 80 million skill points = 150k skill points per injector

Then there is the fact that you do not actually have to spend any real world money at all on injectors and the like.  They will all be for sale, from other players, on the market for ISK.  See Jita for the best pricing.

And, finally, there is the fact that advancement does not equal winning in EVE Online, unless your goal… your personal win condition… is to merely skill up your character.  As somebody whose main character recently passed the 150 million skill point mark (while my main alt is past 110 million), I can tell you that having skill points does not mean winning any more than having ISK means winning.  In my case, it generally just gives me a wider range of ships in which to be blown up.

Still, even with those offsets, the whole plan makes me somewhat uncomfortable for a couple of reasons.  One is that even a whiff of “Pay to Win” will give those who already hate the game for whatever reason to throw stones about how CCP is exploiting new players, cash grabs, the evil of money grubbing developers, and so on.  Once you go into an area with a dubious reputation, like multi-level marketing schemes or free to play MMORPGs, you inherit some of the reputation that such has already attained.  You may seem to be selling power with the best of intentions, but it has been done so blatantly wrong before in other games that it is tough ignore.

Then, of course, I am waiting for the tale of how Goons will be the main beneficiaries out of the feature.  If your Goon conspiracy theory cannot include that, you’re doing it wrong!

But mostly I am wondering where the hole, the exploit, the unintentional outcome will show up, because if there is one thing that the last dozen years of the game has shown us is that the wisdom of crowds is a thing and that there is no way a few hundred people in Reykjavík can foresee what a couple hundred thousand people will come up with.

If they mess up with a new ship or a module or game mechanic, they can fix that in the next patch without much bother.  We’ve seen that over and over.  But when you start mucking with one of the core aspects of in-game character development, that might be a place where I fear to tread. We’ll just have to wait see how it plays out.  At least we don’t have skill point losses due to forgetting the update your clone any more, though there is still the strategic cruiser thing.

And in the long run, I suspect that the likely users of this feature will be old hands looking to quickly boost an alt, corps and alliances looking to help promising new players along, people looking for a bit of ISK out of skills they trained and never used, and maybe, just maybe, a few hard cores who want to be able to retrain lost strategic cruiser skills more quickly.

Will I use this feature?  After all, having gone beyond the 150 million skill point mark there must be some skills in there that I ended up never needing.

The thing is, this is EVE Online.  There are so many paths to follow that I can’t really predict what I might need tomorrow given how many careers I’ve had in the past.  Hell, if it wasn’t for Reavers I might run off and join Signal Cartel and be a space hippie for a year, and who knows what skills I might need for that.  So I doubt I will be stripping any skill points out of my skull any time soon.

Others on the topic currently:

Some post from when this first came up:


11 thoughts on “The Return of the Stripper

  1. Fenjay

    “The sum total of skill points in New Eden won’t change because of this” – not to be pedantic, but because I think it is a fairly important point: the number of skill points in New Eden will actually go down because of this. It’s a skill point sink. Because of the scale you posted, everytime someone extracts SP, some skill points go away and never come back.

    Maybe it won’t be significant or meaningful, but it feels like it’s good for the game in the same way isk sinks are good. At the same time, I do have deep reservations about this, and you hit on some of the reasons. But I think the skill point drain is one of the good aspects.


  2. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Fenjay – You’re right. I was trying to go along with the point about SP not being created out of thin air, so there would be no SP inflation or whatever, and forgot about the other half of the equation, where a high SP user applying an injector would actually reduce the net total of SP in the game. I shall apply a little obvious editing to that.

    And some sort of net skill point drain would probably be good, though the disincentives for using injectors as a higher SP character are such that I wonder how often it will happen.


  3. Shintar

    I look forward to the headline of how someone’s ship filled with nothing but skill injectors was blown up and dramatically decreased the cumulative knowledge in New Eden (or something to that effect).


  4. Gevlon

    “500K SP bundle, which is bound to be a bit pricey” No it won’t. I am completely sure that [500 K SP bundle price] will be less or equal than [empty skill extractor price] + [1/4 PLEX price]. Around 400M.

    I’ll make a post about it.


  5. Gevlon

    Sorry, forgot how is it benefiting Goons:
    – The Mittani will instruct members to “as soon as possible” get into Ship X because it’s awesome and if you can’t fly it you can’t really help the team
    – He will also inform you that if you don’t have ISK to buy skill packets, you can buy a PLEX for real money and sell it in Jita for the ISK
    – He will finally hint the “PLEX” link in top-left of TMC


  6. mbp

    Is this a way of respeccing your character? Can you use yoru own skill points to make an injector for yourself and then skill up in a different way? I could see this adding a very interesting dynamic to the game. Unfortunately the diminshing returns after 500 million skill points limits it usefullness for higher level characters. Nevertheless I could see people growing flexible 5 million skill pointers that could be highly specialised in a role and then flipped to another role as required.


  7. SynCaine

    The negative aspects of this will be similar to people saying EVE is F2P because of PLEX. If you’re dumb enough to believe that, you’re likely dumb enough to say player-to-player skill point sales are Pay4Power. And like with PLEX, this will help us more easily identify the idiots in the crowd.

    The skill point sink is, IMO, the biggest benefit here, because unlike the Cruiser skill point loss, this one is a bit more hidden and more broad.

    I also don’t see this being a big deal in a few months, other than the above-mentioned idiots to use as a point of self-identification.


  8. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Gevlon – “Pricey” is a subjective term. 400 million ISK isn’t very steep for you, not even for me, but if some new player had that much and was thinking about buying an injector, I’d suggest they spend it on a decent set of implants… I think you could get a set of +4 implants for that… which would get their SP/hour up past 2,000, which means they would be training 500,000 SP every 10 days or so.

    You also assume that the market will stay stable in the face of this new draw on the whole PLEX/Aurum side of things.

    Meanwhile, I was more trolling Dinsdale with that Goons thing. (Unlike Tobold, I’ll admit when I am trolling.) You’ve explained how they could benefit, how they might adapt and play the change. He will explain how Goons made CCP do this as part of their master RMT plan.

    @mbp – I suppose you could do that, but it would be a very expensive way to do so, and if you have a high SP character you would be losing more skill points than you would be adding back. An 80% tax for a respec is too much for me. Better to just buy some implants and wait out whatever skill you have on the list.


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