Camelot Unchained Refunds Require Transaction IDs

I received a response from the Camelot Unchained about my refund request.

As I expected, and despite a comment from Mark Jacobs over at Massively OP about matching up email addresses or whatever, City State Entertainment’s official line to me is that they require transaction IDs for all refunds.  The text of their response:

Hello,

Thank you for sending the information. All purchases have TransactionIDs, it acts as a receipt for your purchase. We do need the transactionID to process the refund. It is a long alphanumeric ID. If you cannot locate it, please contact Kickstarter or Paypal and they will retrieve it for you.

Thank You,
CSE Support Team

As I explained in my previous post on this, there were no transaction IDs provided at the time of my Kickstarter pledge and that my credit card company does not keep such records past the six year mark, and we’re coming up on the seventh anniversary of the funding of the Kickstarter.

I suppose it is possible Kickstarter might have be able to provide the transaction ID.  I will contact them next to see if they keep records that old.  I will not be surprised if they do not.

But this continues to confirm my suspicion that they will stonewall people on the transaction ID front, with the added bonus that we now know that what Mark Jacobs says in comments over at Massively OP may not necessarily reflect reality.  Another reason to call into question what he is pitching now.

Addendum: Have you tried contacting Kickstarter?  They do not want to be contacted, something which I suspect City State Entertainment knows.  (Their email is support@kickstarter.com, which wasn’t anywhere on their site but which worked all the same.)

Addendum 2: Article at Massively OP where Mark Jacobs responded in comments that transaction IDs were not required.  Post update incorporating Mark’s comment:

[Update: MOP tipster Wilhelm has noted that some of the info might be difficult to come by, given that some credit card companies do not keep transaction IDs that old, but Jacobs says that people should send in what they do have and support will try to match you by email address.]

19 thoughts on “Camelot Unchained Refunds Require Transaction IDs

  1. Yeebo

    If they don’t know who gave them money in the first place (and how much), how will they know who to give free access to the game and other stuff backers paid for (when it presumably comes out and is totally awesome)? Am I missing something?

    Like

  2. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Yeebo – There is a level of BS in this transaction ID thing. I think it is simply to keep people from getting refunds because, as you point out, it seems like they ought to have a record of all of this and be able to match things up easily enough. They wouldn’t need a transaction ID to give me access to the game I assume, so it is just stonewalling.

    And, of course, this is the copy/paste of the “send this if they don’t have transaction IDs” form letter to brush people off.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Tessa - Narratess

    If Kickstarter can’t give you a transaction ID, you should include their response in your next correspondence to CSE. If Kickstarter can’t find it, they probably can’t either, since you didn’t use PayPal. I really hope you’ll get your money back :(

    Liked by 1 person

  4. bhagpuss

    They can delay the process of giving refunds in the hope people will get bored or frustrated and give up but given Mark Jacob’s public statements it’s going to be difficult for them to avoid refunding those who are sufficiently persistent. You have all the relevant information except the transaction number and he is on record as saying they will try to match and refund without it. If they don’t, that will potentially blow up into a larger problem for them – always assuming a significant number of people are actually requesting refunds.

    And of course if you keep going on about it, at length, in detail, in as many public places as possible it will become expedient to pay you off to keep you quiet. You definitely have the platform to make it sufficiently uncomfortable. Perhaps Mark Jacobs will pop into the comments and offer to expidite your refund personally. He wouldn’t be the first dev to turn up here by a long chalk. Has he ever commented before?

    Liked by 3 people

  5. Mark Jacobs

    Wilhelm, you are wrong about the Transaction ID. Every PayPal or Amazon Payment transaction, when it went through, contained a TID. The length of the TID depended on when you pledged. If you pledged during the Kickstarter, it would have come from Amazon Payments. If you pledged after the Kickstarter funded, it would have come from PayPal. It doesn’t matter if you use a credit card/bank account/etc., all transactions ran through one of those two sites.

    If you pledged in 2013 during the Kickstarter, you would have gotten this message:
    ——————————————————————
    Greetings from Amazon Payments,

    We wanted to let you know that we successfully completed a payment to City State Entertainment, LLC. for on May 2, 2013. This payment is related to the payment authorization listed below:

    Payment details:
    —————
    Transaction ID:
    Recipient: City State Entertainment, LLC.
    Amount:
    For: Pledging on Kickstarter.
    Payment method:
    Reference: KICKSTARTER COM

    ——————————————————————————————————–
    In the actual email it would have been filled out of course.

    As I said to you on MOP, do you remember if you pledged during the Kickstarter or afterward. If you pledged during, you will have an email from Amazon Payments with that information. If it was just after the Kickstarter, you’ll have an email from PayPal.

    Like

  6. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    And you said over on MOP that transaction IDs weren’t a big deal. But now you’re here, out of the public light, to tell me that they are, so no refund for me, official from the CEO.

    Thanks for all the nothing I’ve gotten.

    Like

  7. Mark Jacobs

    And when you have that number, let me know and I’ll happily process your refund. But we get people attempting to scam us all the time. Sometimes they make up fake #s, put in for multiple refunds (3 extra attempts so far is the record), say that they lost access to email account but when I reach back to the person who is on record they say they never requested it, refunding a payment through PayPal and then asking us to refund it too,etc.

    We’re truly not trying to be difficult but since PayPal or Amazon Payments can give you that info but because we don’t have any way of proving that somebody is the person who they say they are, is it too much to ask that the person has the one piece of information that we have said from the beginning that they need to keep safe?

    Like

  8. Mark Jacobs

    No, I said we could work with you on it but instead of taking me up on the offer by reaching out to me, you assumed we are trying to do something sleazy. I don’t even have your email offer so I can’t contact you. Bree let me know that I can reach you here, so I reached out to you directly.

    And again, you’re making it seem like I’m lying about the TID but I’m not. Is it that you can’t find the email from either PayPal or Amazon Payments?

    Like

  9. Mark Jacobs

    And, I can’t even look you up in our account because I don’t know your email address and/or your Forum name. I do need something to look up. If I have that, I can look up your account and tell you whether it was PayPal or Amazon Payments. :)

    Like

  10. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    You should contact Bree over at MOP to have them amend what I quoted as the second addendum, because it certainly reads as though your customer support team will take care of it. That does not seem representative of the facts you have presented.

    I do not have an email from Amazon Payments and their online records only go back to 2016, so unless Kickstarter has it somewhere, I have no transaction ID to provide.

    Like

  11. Mark Jacobs

    And support doesn’t have access to the records I do for obvious reasons (security, GDPR, etc). Once I have that, I can look at info and I’m sure you and I can sort that out quickly. We’re really not trying to be difficult but, as per above, all KS-backed games get a lot of scammers. I know you’re not one, but because of that, we have to be careful.

    And again, I was expecting to hear from you. As you can see, once Bree let me know what was going on, I reached out to you. I had assumed that based on what I said to you that you reached out and your support email was in the queue.

    Like

  12. p0tsh0t

    Pfft. Name and shame is the only thing that gets a response. No surprise there. Un-fucking-believable cognitive dissonance. So glad to see CSE is concerned about scamming… I guess they would know.

    Liked by 1 person

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