Don’t Pimp This Instance!

Potshot suggested this poll and I figure I would roll with it today.

With the announcement that there would be level 85 heroic versions of The Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep released as part of the Cataclysm expansion for World of Warcraft there has been a lot of talk about what other instances Blizzard should take the time to create heroic versions of.

And that, of course, has lead to more than a few, “Oh lord, please don’t bother with…” responses as well.

So today’s poll asks, which classic WoW instance should Blizzard NEVER bother creating a heroic version of.

Personally, I don’t feel much hate for any of the instances.  None of them were that horrible.  There are a few, however, that I am glad I did once and will never return to again.

So which instance would you choose to ban from ever being made heroic?

Your justifications are welcome in the comments.

17 thoughts on “Don’t Pimp This Instance!

  1. Green Armadillo

    Honestly, I think the Stormwind Stockade should be turned into a non-instanced non-elite quest area with relatively rapid respawn timers for the named mobs. The place is just a T-shaped hallway with some mobs in it, so it’s not the kind of thing you can just clean up in a balance pass.

    Heroic BRD would be interesting, but it would have be chopped into like 3-4 pieces to fit the current model for time per heroic dungeon run. If you were going to make it a heroic, you should probably make the heroic version an entry level 25-man raid or something.


  2. syncaine

    LBRD gets my vote, just not a fun instance back when you had to grind it for the key to UBRS, not to mention both BRD and UBRS being more interesting areas using basically the same look/design.


  3. Morane

    Some I those higher levels I haven’t done but I voted for Sunken Temple. Although I like it, it takes so long to run that I’ve only finished about 50% of the runs I’ve started.


  4. Wilhelm2451 Post author

    I put this post together last week when Potshot suggested it, then thought about my own choice for quite a bit.

    There are a few instances that are just too long, starting with Wailing Caverns. We spent four and a half hours doing that zone, though half an hour of that was spent just being lost.

    In the end though, I had to go with Gnomeregan for having some different game mechanics and interesting quests and then hiding them behind a mind-numbing 4+ hour yard-trash grind when done at level.

    Plus there weren’t enough of those essential artifacts laying around for a five person group, so we had to go back in and get some later.


  5. p@tsh@t

    The way I see it, there are three groups:

    1. Those that left a strong positive impression
    2. Those that left a strong negative impression
    3. Those that left no significant impression

    I have to toss stuff like Ragefire Chasm, Wailing Caverns and Razorfen Kraul into the 3d bucket. It goes without saying, nothing in the 3d category should be made into an heroic dungeon.

    All in though, it was a close call between Uldaman and Gnomeregan for me. Ultimately, I settled on Gnomer and the worst.

    Both partly due to sheer length, mechanics and (bad) design. Blizz ultimately solved the length issue after a couple attempts– first with side doors, then with the current “wing” designs that came in with Scarlet, Mauradon, Dire Maul, etc.

    For me the story aspect and the epic feeling of the Archaedas fight overcame the fact that you could start the instance in your low 30s but need to be in the high 30s or low 40s to actually finish it. Horrid design and when the only graveyard was on the far side of the zone, a true nightmare. And as Saylah mentioned, the only high level enchanter trainer was located IN the middle of the instance….

    Gnomer wins out though. Sheer length coupled with such a colossal waste of potential coupled with those annoying alarm bots. The lost home city of the gnomes deserved a more Defias/Van Cleef like treatment.


  6. kanthalos

    I also voted for Sunken Temple. If you didn’t have someone in your group who knew the order in which to kill the mini bosses and how to get around that place, it could be a total nightmare. I liked most of the other instances enough that seeing them upgraded could be fun.

    One thing I’m curious about is whether they are going to switch out all the mobs/bosses for newly skinned, higher-level versions of themselves or whether they are going to be new creatures/bosses entirely. Both have their pros and cons, and while it would be fun to be challenged in Deadmines again at level 80 or 85, I might also have a hard time believing that Van Cleef, Mr. Smite, Cookie, and all the other bosses gained 60 or so levels overnight. On the other hand, you lose a lot of the appeal of remaking these instances if all the mobs and bosses are new. It will be interesting to see how they do it.


  7. pjharvey

    Gnomeregan makes a bad impression on many, but it would be much improved simply by making it an end-game instance, so that there weren’t large disparities in mob levels and the loot were worth returning for.

    My vote went to Blackrock Depths, mostly because the instance is just too damned big. It’s vibrant and immersive in its depth, but there is simply too much of it to be viable as a basic instance. It has more of a weekly raid feel to it. I can’t face going back in there to explore and crawl to the end as it is, and despite my best efforts to try again I have always ended up swearing never to go back.


  8. Dorgol

    Initially I was going to vote Gnomer (too long), BRD (WAY too long, can get lost), or Sunken Temple (again, easy to get lost).

    Then I read the first comment.

    Stormwind Stockades should never be made into a heroic because it is just too damn boring. People complain that TBC instances we “room hallway room hallway boss” – but it was the Stockades that started it all.


  9. Cheri Destanza

    The thing with Stormwind Stockades is that while it is simple, if they did make it heroic, people would run it. Being heroic does not require it be heroic in length.


  10. syncaine

    The comments about Gnome and Uld are interesting, because those are two of the tougher instances to do at-level. Not just because of length, but because of things like the alarm bot or twisty agro management in Uld, not to mention the epic final bosses. If you got a good group together, those places had a great ‘end-game’ feel to them at their level. They were tough, rewarding, and interesting in their story/design. Compare either to The Stockades or RageFire, and it’s no contest. I think most people have a negative impression because, sadly, I think most people tried to PUG them and after too many wipes, moved on with a bad taste in their mouth. Is that the fault of the dungeon (considering those in solid groups had way more fun in them than in the other dungeons), or the players?


  11. Jemre

    There’s a rumor, but only a rumor, that Gnomeregan will be retaken by the gnomes come Cataclysm. It’d be interesting, to say the least, and I expect there’d still be an instance there, but it would give them the opportunity to totally redesign the place.

    Syncaine – yeah, gnomer was difficult, but I’ve been in there at proper level with some very skilled groups, when my guild was rerolling in a group, and we hated it simply for the loooooooong trash clears. we didn’t wipe same with uldaman, just terribly long and boring compared to the post-vanilla instances.


  12. p@tsh@t

    @Jemre, a retaken or partially retaken Gnomeregan would be awesome. Such lost potential story wise. After the lead up to Deadmines, it almost seemed like an afterthought. One that was apparently predicated on requiring said long trash clears.

    @Syn, Uldaman had that awesome epic feel to it, but any instance that starts out with grey mobs and ends with red (pre-nerf) is probably a bit of a design fail. Seeing how well Scarlet works makes you want to cry for Uldaman.

    SFK used to have the same problem as I recall too. Such is the bane of a lower level instance where small differences in level can result in relatively big differences in a character’s stats and abilities.


  13. Saylah

    Cool, I’m not alone in feeling that Gnomer should be wiped from the face of Azeroth for-ever! hehe. The only other instance I hated with almost equal passion was Maura Orange. Ugh! Scarlet was the pinnacle of instance design in vanilla WOW. Deadmines was fun but I don’t quite get the love for it.


  14. sid67

    I voted for Sunken Temple (just because the layout is so confusing) but the more obvious choices are the Stockades and Ragfire Chasm just because they are so simple in design.

    BRD sucks, but I thought I read they were going to break that into an instance hub which would make it drammatically better.

    The instance I probably dislike the most after Sunken Temple is probably Maraudon. It’s just too big with too much trash. That said, it also has one of the most memorable old world bosses in the Princess.


  15. syncaine

    Well Deadmines was exactly the same way, mobs started at level 14 and VC was what, 20-21? SFK was similar as well, was it not? The first mobs where about 4-5 levels lower than the final boss? It was clearly bad design, but Gnome and Uld were not the only instances with it, and so if we are faulting Gnome/Uld for mob levels, we need to fault Deadmines and SFK (among others I’m sure) as well.


  16. DEG

    I voted for Sunken Temple too. I can’t find my way around in there.

    And there already *is* heroic Stratholme – heroic Culling of Strat, one of my favorites ;)


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