Quote of the Day – CCP Picks Winners

Goons were untouchable until they failed to deliver the $150K. Then they became outcasts overnight and the IWI RMT block became above the law – until they met with real life gambling law. Then IWI got banned overnight and the devs found their next “winner”: whoever controls the trillions-for-nothing Perimiter citadels.

Gevlon, You can’t compare reality with a dream

So there you have it, the Imperium lost the Casino War because it failed to raise a $150,000 payoff for CCP.

Signs of a vast Goon conspiracy

I love me a good conspiracy theory, and here is Gevlon continuing to justify his leaving EVE Online… so long after he left that you have to wonder who he is really addressing here… the goblin doth protest too much methinks… by claiming that CCP picks winners.  It also seems to invalidate his claim that he beat Goons by funding Mordus Angels.   If CCP picked the winner, then I guess he didn’t really enter into it.  After the failed Kickstarter, Goons were doomed already.

This is especially timely as the CSM 12 elections are going on right now and CCP is working to try and get the non-null sec part of the game to actually give a shit and vote.  CCP isn’t actively campaigning against null sec.  But getting out the vote clearly works against null sec sweeping the election yet again.  Is this how one picks winners? (Cue “CCP could be doing more!” comment)

I would actually like to put Gevlon’s conspiracy up against Dinsdale Pirannha’s, because the Din/Vin spin is that Goons run CCP and that every thing they do is strictly to benefit them.  In his world, Goons were slated to win the war (quote on record), banning IWI was just removing an RMT competitor, and Goons really own whatever citadel is making money one jump from Jita. (Also something about fellatio now and again because Din is so angry he has to personify the imagined collusion into a sexual relationship.)

My own observation of the current “winners,” which is anecdotal, but which has persisted over months, is that citadels one jump from Jita do not have all that much impact on the market.  I extract and sell a skill injector every week at the Caldari Navy Assembly Plant at Jita Planet IV moon 4, and the prices listed in Perimeter have no bearing on what I can get for the injector.   I look at the market, sort the prices low to high, scroll past all the low ball Perimeter listings to where the Jita price stands, list in that range, and the injector sells within hours despite being priced as much as 20% above the Perimeter citadel price.

I am sure some people buy in Perimeter.  I would if it were my ISK.  But clearly the habit and the implied safety of Jita 4-4 is strong enough to be worth a bonus.  Plus it is still the place to buy everything else.  Perimeter is really only trying to corner the PLEX and skill injector market.  Nobody is hauling all of their production to a third party citadel.

And those citadels are not even that safe.  A reader sent me a PLEX in game for answering some questions, contracted to me from a citadel in Perimeter. (Thank you, btw!)  Only when I went to collect it, I found it was in the safety tab of my assets window with a timer before it would appear in an NPC station.  The citadel it was in had been destroyed.  Oops.  Now I have to wait until I can buy it out of hock.

Anyway, this sounds like a classic choice of malice over ignorance.  Do you think CCP is picking winners?  Is CCP just bad at predicting consequences?  (Or believing when players point them out in advance?)  Or is this just along the lines of Malcanis’ law (another Gevlon favorite), where anything aimed at helping newer players ends up helping the entrenched older players even more so?

Looking forward to the inevitable Gevlon and Dinsdale comments on this.

45 thoughts on “Quote of the Day – CCP Picks Winners

  1. yadot

    Gevlon: – “I will not mention EVE ever again in this blog.” There is a statement I find hard to believe. Anyway, I thought PL controlled all the Perimeter Citadels?

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  2. SynCaine

    My favorite part of the loony bin over there is they are having a discussion about ‘New Jita’ that Gevlon oh-so-correctly predicted, despite the fact that in-game there isn’t one, and hasn’t been since the release of citadels. As you said, those cits were/are being destroyed (currently by a bored PH, who have tried to set up their own market at 1.2% tax, but the volume is very low there), and 0% tax cits pop up all the time for people to mass-list PLEX or Injectors on.

    And as you mentioned, Jita has simply adjusted and prices differ a bit, which to most people not trading in mass volume, they don’t really care. Which is basically what everyone not wearing a tinfoil hat predicted would happen.

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  3. Lorelei Ierendi

    “CCP is working to try and get the non-null sec part of the game to actually give a shit and vote.”
    (obligatory comment) – what exactly has CCP been doing differently this year than last?

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  4. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Lorelei Ierendi – “what exactly has CCP been doing differently this year than last?”

    Where in that quote did I make such an assertion? But since you ask, they made that nice “how to vote” video and have been more active on social media trying to get people to vote. Did you fail to notice that? If so, you are likely a perfect high sec candidate. I know when I was playing in high sec I was mostly oblivious to such things.

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  5. Lorelei Ierendi

    @Wilhelm
    What does making a video and posting on social media have to do with encouraging non-null people to vote. I would bet that the most of us are oblivious to such things….
    What we need is in-game popups!!!

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  6. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Lorelei Ierendi – Null sec is going to vote without any prompting from CCP, so any advertising is encouraging non-null people to vote.

    Pop-ups in-game might nudge a few people to vote, but with an array of 64 candidates, what is going to happen? Somebody who isn’t already engaged is going to be looking at 64 strangers. Who are they going to pick? You? Aryth? Xenuria? Commander Aze?

    As I have noted many times, filling a focus group by popular vote is silly because the groups most engaged in the game will dominate. If this were WoW, it would be mostly raiders. In EVE, null sec is the group that reaps the benefit.

    And the biggest joke of all is STV. That was supposed to make things better, but in a tip of the hat to Malcanis, null sec adapted and are represented even more strongly. Organized groups win in the face of a completely unorganized majority.

    We’re at the 12th election. Imagining this time will be different after the election has kicked off doesn’t seem realistic.

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  7. Gevlon

    “so long after he left that you have to wonder who he is really addressing here”: myself. Since I’ve left EVE there hasn’t been a day without thinking how could I return and it poisoned every other game I played or thinking about playing. This had to end. EVE would be the best game ever if it would be according to its specifications. But it’s not, players have little to none effect on the game world except what they can make over a beer and some “deals” with Falcon and similar devs.

    This guy got 300B per month by running a citadel. Comparison: when Goons invaded Fountain, Mittani cited 6-800B/month moon income as reason. This SINGLE GUY got half of it with literally zero effort

    PLEX and injector/extractor market is about half of the total traded volume, so cornering “just” that is more than enough.

    Granted, my prediction of running one New Jita didn’t come true, probably because it would cause too much outrage. So several “independent” citadels are running for cartel members. If you try to set up one, it gets exploded.

    Yes, I do believe now that most of my efforts destroying Goons was for nothing. Falcon was ready to stop me defeating Goons, he made it clear with no uncertain words. Then Goons failed the book and they were no longer an asset to Falcon and co. How much part MoA took in finishing them and how much was actually IWI is anyone’s guess, but their fate was sealed the minute the kickstarter was canceled.

    While “CCP is bad at predicting consequences” seems like a good excuse, it’s just as good as “I didn’t want to kill that family, I just thought I can drive home after 6 beers safely”. Devs are accessible to players in unstructured ways, meaning that those players who are good at networking have a huge advantage getting the ears of developers. This creates one-sided information, even if the dev is not corrupted. Those not among the “friends” cannot give feedback. While CCP makes attempts to get non-nullsec people vote, it’s pointless because they won’t listen to the non-nullsec CSM anyway. Remember how Rippard and Sugar, both getting record high votes got burned out because they were sidelined and ignored. Why should anyone bother to vote when his “congressman” won’t be listened to anyway.

    Finally: while you can debate lot of things, you can’t debate one: IWI was caught RMTing. The head of security publicly announced it and he was overruled. He was so upset that he vented publicly and still IWI could keep on RMTing until I threatened CCP with a lawsuit for facilitating underage gambling. This is not ignorance, this is clear malice.

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  8. Dire Necessity

    I tend to turn questions like “Does CCP pick winners?” on its head asking instead why particular bittervets remain so hellbent on declaring that CCP picks winners. As best I can tell, nearly all these lingering bittervets are upset that they couldn’t/can’t successfully defeat those they are declaring ‘winners’ and vociferously complain to CCP about it. The thing is their chosen foes are near impossible for them to defeat, not because of CCP favoritism, but because they’ve chosen large, well organized groups that they think they ought to be able to defeat solo.

    While I understand this desire, it remains an unreasonable expectation since it plays to these bittervet’s weakest characteristic – social interaction. Din/Vin & Goblin, while amusing to read, aren’t charismatic meaning they’ll never successfully organize a group large enough or cohesive enough to compete with their chosen foes. It’s just flat difficult to flourish in a social environment like CCP’s EVE if you’re a grumbling misanthrope.

    If you’ll forgive a little self promotion, should soloish players bring the right attitude, there’s a great deal of fun to be nurtured from EVE: https://crossingzebras.com/being-small/

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  9. SynCaine

    Gevlon where exactly is Yang’s citadel again? I was flying around trying to find it, maybe you can help us? Because as you said, with ‘so much’ ISK like 300b a month (so cute you think that’s a lot) coming in, surely that now means Karen is your predicted unbeatable force, right?

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  10. Gevlon

    @Dire Necessity: I was after goons for more than 1.5 years and didn’t complain once on CCP. Then Falcon came personally after me, right when he started to promote the $150K book with Goons. But sure, I’m a bittervet who just couldn’t evict Goons who are still ratting in Deklein … oh wait!

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  11. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Gevlon – The logic here is pretty simple. You can claim you won the Casino War OR you can claim that CCP picked the winner.

    If you claim the latter, then your 1.5 years of effort were a sham because it took CCP to beat Goons.

    If you claim the former, then CCP doesn’t pick winners, your grudge is invalid, and you can celebrate how you and MOA took Deklein from Goons… oh wait!

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  12. Dire Necessity

    @Gevlon

    If I read you correctly, you seem to be claiming that CCP Falcon personally attacked you because he supported the Fountain War kick-starter meaning, for reasons I can’t wrap my mind around, that obliged him to attack you. These aren’t exclusive choices. It’s entirely possible for Falcon to have supported both the kick-starter and you at the same time. In fact, as community manager, that’s his job and in truth that’s what he did. His comments about you were extraordinarily supportive. I quote:
    Yes, I like Gevlon.
    Yes, I think he provides a super interesting viewpoint.
    Yes, I’d buy the guy a beer or two and shoot the shit if he hit fanfest, or a player gathering.
    Yes, I value the guy as a community contributor, even if some people think he’s a troll and can’t decide whether he believes what he writes or not.
    And finally, yes, I think he’s mad as a box of frogs.
    That said, the content he creates is fantastic, while also biased against certain organizations in EVE, and it’s great to see that he has the backbone to challenge one of the biggest coalitions in game in his own way.
    I’ve always been one to call things as I see them. Just because I think someone’s a bit nuts, doesn’t mean that’s a bad thing.
    We all go a little mad, sometimes.

    A person with some social skill would have seen opportunity and jumped on that comment (pun intended) and ridden for all it’s worth. In some sense you did this but being irredeemably bitter you rode it in negative fashion which was destined to peter out all too soon. The problem with bitter is that, well, it’s bitter, it’s not enduringly fun, it inevitably leaves a foul taste in one’s mouth.

    “Diagnosed ‘mad as a box of frogs’ by CCP Falcon” was extraordinary opportunity and would have found it’s way into my bio had I been so lucky as to have Falcon hand me that type of delightfully quirky review. But then, I have enough social skill to recognize a gift when it’s handed me.

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  13. Dinsdale Pirannha

    OK, I will take the bait.

    Yes, I called for goons to between the RMT’ers, given that CCP has followed their lead for years. But it ended up that the IWI side just had too much cash and determination for even CCP to stop the tide against goons. BTW, note that goons did not commit their chest of cash nor their super-cap fleet to the battle. Whether that is just good strategy in the face of a powerful enemy or simply not wanting to put too much a dent in the mortgage and car payments, I will leave up to the readers.

    We see, for the last time, (thanks to the goon who told CCP no more financial info), that Delve and the goons’ cash flows are as strong as ever. Oh, and soon after that war, CCP removed the only group large enough to compete with goons financially in-game and also who were competitors in the supply of ISK for the RMT market.

    And nothing will change until new owners arrive and clean house in the C-Suites and with the dev’s on the RMT cartels’ payroll.

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  14. Gevlon

    @Wilhelm: that was the point of the post. I no longer think that me or anyone was instrumental in anything. We were pawns in CCP devs games. Sure, MoA with me caused more damage to Goons than anyone (actually more than PL+NC.+TEST+Nulli in 2015), but Goons were safe, exactly because when things went bad for them, Falcon was there to save them. So “informed” alliances didn’t attack Goons. When the book failed and Falcon declared hunting season on them (no Sions rule, insulting Mittani on twitter), everyone jumped on the easy target. If the book didn’t fail then either
    – MoA would still be #1 Goon killer and take a few systems every week just so Goons flip back and I would be screaming “look people, they are so weak, one more alliance and they are dead” but no one else would come for “reasons”
    – MoA alone would be able to destroy Goons and then either MoA leaders or me got banned by Falcon & co to stop that.

    @Dire Necessity: his reason was that MoA started evicting the CFC. His first attack came on the reddit post about MoA capturing a CFC system. The book was about celebrating the Goon war machine. If a handful of pirates evict them, that would make it a joke. So Falcon protected Goons to protect the book. Your quote is his third and most well-thought attack. The first two was rather random insults from the top of his head. When he saw that I’m fighting back, he wrote this masterpiece of social manipulation. Its meaning: Gevlon is a funny, lovely clown, read and laugh on his posts, but never believe anything as he is mad. This was a well designed attack on my credibility using his reputation and authority as lead dev instead of any evidence (as he had none).

    The first two attacks were in the range of “yes, he is an asshole but if he posts a corporate apology, then we’re fine”. This third post was the breaking point, when I realized that he is after me, he is not going to stop, he will destroy me unless I can destroy him. I tried and failed to get him fired. So I had to leave EVE.

    I have to admit that this was the first time in my adult life that I hated someone. As a blogger writing for over a decade, I have more “kill urself u faggott” and I laughed them off, because they were laughable. Falcon wasn’t raging mad at me, he simply realized that I was in his way and figured out how to destroy me. In a sense he succeeded, as I’m out of EVE. I lost three years of effort and my WoW readerbase, I had/have to rebuild my blog from zero, so I’m not ashamed to admit that I hate him and even thinking of him makes me upset.

    @Dinsdale Pirannha: IWI and all his crew with all their ISK were banned in December for RMT. Then *someone* unbanned them despite the public complaints of the head of security. IWI achieved nothing but a ban on his own in the game. He achieved everything because of his connections to devs who chose him as the “next Mittani” and designed the citadels for him. On August 19 he declared his monopoly over Jita citadels “for the common good” https://imperium.news/citadels-dispersing-market-hubs/ and started to evict every non-obedient citadels, unopposed. Too bad that his New Jita monopoly ended 6 weeks later when I threatened CCP with a lawsuit if they don’t ban him: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2016/10/weekend-minipost-oh-its-on.html

    After consulting with their lawyers, they folded and banned IWI: https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/end-user-license-agreement-changes-coming-with-eve-online-ascension/
    Check the name of the author of that devblog. While it didn’t help me, it still makes me smile. I wish I could see his face when the lawyers told him that I won that round.

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  15. Krumm

    New owners bahh…CCP politics picking sides “they like you better than me” bahhh… this is why I like to mine! Its quite and the rocks don’t ask why!!! Play the game, enjoy the game stop complaining about stuff like this dribble. If you see something in game that needs to be fix submit a rub report and get off ye soap box. Life is not fair in life or in a sandbox environment…deal with it.

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  16. SynCaine

    “Its meaning: Gevlon is a funny, lovely clown, read and laugh on his posts, but never believe anything as he is mad.”

    The fact that you think anyone needed Falcon to point this out about you is hilarious, Captain Tackle Titan.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Gevlon

    @Syncaine: your constant obsession about people instead of events is what make you completely unable to add anything to any conversation.

    Let me explain it on your level. If I’m a clown, I was always a clown. I was blogging about EVE for 3 years and Falcon never bothered to say anything about me. Which kind of makes sense if I’m a clown. Yet, for some reason, he decided to post multiple, posts with over 1000 words at the exact moment when my mercs evicted Goons from a system (which was the first time anyone evicted them since Fozziesov) and what he posted was exactly what Goons were saying about me. A thinking person would find this strange, REGARDLESS of the validity of “Gevlon is mad as a box of frogs”.

    Try to focus about WHAT is happening instead of people. You might achieve something in life and may get more readers per month than I have in a particularly bad day.

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  18. SynCaine

    When the person in question gets the facts of every event wrong and lives in pure fantasy land, have a serious conversation about events with that person is a comical waste of time.

    But sure, since you can’t delete comments here and generally act like the thin-skinned social you are, lets focus on events and not the person behind them or (and this is the important part) their perception of events.

    Nothing of actual impact was happening to Goons at the time of the Falcon post. Nothing. There was ZERO actual threat to Goons until someone with real wealth and connections (Lenny) came along and worked with PL/NC. to move Goons from the North to the South. MoA was never a threat. Taking one random system for a short amount of time isn’t “evicting” anyone, nor is killing ratters. I don’t think even you are so dumb to believe MoA could hold anything, or do anything under the new sov system. Which is why today MoA are nobody renters while Goons are more powerful than ever, because they never mattered and Goons weren’t ‘defeated’ by anyone.

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  19. Gevlon

    @Syncaine: Indeed, since it’s not my blog, I don’t have to care about the quality of the comment sections, you are Wilhelm’s problem here.

    Let’s see how a CFC member saw the “MoA was never a threat” thing: https://tagn.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/mordus-angels-overrunning-west-pure-blind/

    But again: what prompted Falcon to go out after a “clown” after 3 years of ignoring it? After all, the community can use clowns, why chasing them off? Or your position is that Falcon just woke up and said “hey, let’s make one of the highest traffic EVE bloggers go away”? Again: even if he thought that I’m a worthless clown, I clearly entertained lots of EVE players and got over 300 referrals (300+ new accounts were made by my links). It seems silly to try to remove me from EVE for “lulz”.

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  20. SynCaine

    Did you read the post you linked? The little flies took advantage of a gap in the sov system. I’m sure you remember just how long that lasted and what impact it actually had on Goons.

    As for Falcon, he didn’t make you rage-quit. Much like with LoL when you failed in that to accomplish your set goal (top 10%, or have you edited that off your blog as well?) and came up with a BS excuse to quit, you simply used him joking about you with the rest of Reddit as an excuse to quit once Lenny accomplished what you dedicated 4 whole years of your life to but failed.

    But grats on those 300+ referrals, that’s a huge number, wish I knew someone with that many… oh wait. Of course, many of those that joined the game actually played with me and my Corp. How well did you do in that regard again? Remind me what the Corps you started accomplished?

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  21. Gevlon

    @Syncaine: you are still obsess with my person and ignore the post we are arguing about “CCP picks winners”.

    Let me help you focus with a copy-paste: what prompted Falcon to go out after a “clown” after 3 years of ignoring it? After all, the community can use clowns, why chasing them off? Or your position is that Falcon just woke up and said “hey, let’s make one of the highest traffic EVE bloggers go away”? Again: even if he thought that I’m a worthless clown, I clearly entertained lots of EVE players and got over 300 referrals (300+ new accounts were made by my links). It seems silly to try to remove me from EVE for “lulz”.

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  22. Druur Monakh

    @Gevlon Or maybe you simply don’t grok people, which in this case means: Falcon. Unlike you, I have actually met him, and he’s just a regular British bloke – which does include some rough edges, but which country doesn’t have those? The links you keep reciting – in those, he was /complimenting/ you, not dissing you.

    You weren’t chased out of EVE – you walked away from it.

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  23. Gevlon

    @Druur: yes, “mad as a box of frogs” and “he’s a troll and can’t decide whether he believes what he writes or not.” are definitely compliments. However the question remains: why did he choose to “compliment” right when Goons lost a system to my team, despite he ignored me (and I ignored him) in the previous 3 years?

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  24. SynCaine

    ‘Your team’ (remember when they ‘honored’ you with that station name laughing at you, with the joke sailing clear over your head?) temporarily took a system during sov transfer. That you believe this had any real meaning is the problem you have. Falcon could have written what he did a year earlier, or a year later, and the result would have been the same; nothing of real impact happening/changing. Reddit knew you were a joke before Falcon posted, and Reddit knows you are a joke after. You honestly think the sub-set of EVE players on Reddit needed Falcon to make a small joke to realize what you write is 100% BS and fiction?

    But again, just as with LoL and your failure in that, you used Falcon as an excuse to quit. If it hadn’t been Falcon, you would have found some other excuse, like your mythical ‘New Jita’ or something equally crazy and not based in reality, all because Lenny accomplished what you failed to do.

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  25. Gevlon

    @Syncaine: It were a dozen systems and Goons literally referred Falcon as their savior. https://imperium.news/imperium-diplomatic-update-july-2015/
    I didn’t quit because of Falcon in August, I quit in March because of New Jita. Falcon is a minor issue compared to New Jita, but he is more obvious (one can claim that New Jita was a honest mistake, no one can claim that harassing a customer is a sign of prudent dev behavior). Finally, Lenny was banned in December so he couldn’t do anything, but “someone” unbanned him against public protest of the head of security, which is another serious breach. So you are wrong in all of your excuses, but they are also offtopick.

    The question remains: what prompted Falcon to go out after a “clown” after 3 years of ignoring it? (Especially that Reddit already know that I’m a joke, so they didn’t need Falcon, so he had even less reason.) After all, the community can use clowns, why chasing them off? Or your position is that Falcon just woke up and said “hey, let’s make one of the highest traffic EVE bloggers go away”? So WHY DID FALCON DO WHAT HE DID???

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  26. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Gevlon – That link does not indicate the Imperium saw Falcon as anything but somebody poking fun at you. “Savior” is so far out of bounds logically from that it is crazy. And after CSM10 I guarantee you that affection the Imperium might have felt for Falcon had evaporated completely.

    Meanwhile I am sure that the idea that Goons were ever CCP’s “chosen” seems bizarro world wrong to long time GSF pilots, who can draw a line of events where things get nerfed when they benefit Goons.

    That is probably just paranoia, but it makes a good tale, right up to the current Rorqual meta, where Goons are mining too hard with them so that keeps getting nerfed, but Panemic Legion using them as drone slinging jump hictors is a case of an industrial ship being used as designed. (That one is out there for Dinsdale too… if Goons own CCP, why can’t they keep CCP from nerfing Rorqual mining?)

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  27. Gevlon

    @Wilhelm: and since when do “harmless fun” belongs to a SotA? Can you find any other mentioning of fighting MoA in that SotA than hoping on Falcon? Probably because their strat FC shared the following, not too happy experiences after fighting MoA: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3f60qd/csm_share_your_experiences_with_fozziesov/ctlruxb/

    I fully agree that the love between Falcon and Sion turned into hate, read back the quote on the top of your post: “Goons were untouchable until they failed to deliver the $150K. Then they became outcasts overnight”

    You mean “things got nerfed when used AGAINST Goons”? You remember doubling the anom count, right? Beside RMT botters, the only group benefiting from that were Goons. Or multibox bombers banned after a MoA guy massacred Goons with them. I fully agree about Rorquals, but that’s the point of my post: CCP pick winners and now it’s not you (it was you until the book failure), it’s whoever owning the Perimiter citadels (most likely PH/PL).

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  28. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Gevlon – Humor is in every State of the Goonion that I recall, so totally in character. And Falcon calling you names hardly helped Goons in any substantial way.

    Meanwhile, you say one thing, reality says another. The Goon view is that multiboxing bombers only got banned when WhenIAmInSpace allied with Goons and started massacring their foes. That was after MOA had been using the tactic for a while. Suddenly ISBoxer is a bannable offense. Another one was drone assist, only nerfed when Goons joined on that mechanic. In fact I have heard any number of times that one sure fire way for bad mechanics to get fixed is for Goons to adopt it. Now, you may have your own narrative, but I am saying that Goons see the world very differently than you do.

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  29. SynCaine

    Great link, thanks Gevlon. In addition to linking it, maybe go read it as well?

    “Gevlon’s argument hinges on the fact that MoA briefly took a single system in Pure Blind. What he leaves out is that it happened more or less by accident. When you run a vast interstellar empire, sometimes you lose a solar system in the couch cushions and have to go dig for it like your girlfriend’s car keys after an extended makeout session. These things happen.”

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  30. Gevlon

    @SynCaine: by the time it was aired, there were 2 more systems. Then 5 more in the next week. See Reagalan tears.

    And you are still not answering why Falcon did what he did? He had no reason to, even if I WAS a clown. After all, EVE was full of funny content creators like James 315 and CCP supported them instead of attacking.

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  31. Gevlon

    @Wilhelm: MoA leaders said that after the Falcon attacks the participation of the stratops dropped and people questioned them, said that “if Falcon says we are a joke, it must be true, let’s go back killing SMA miners”

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  32. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Gevlon – Hey, if they took Falcon, the guy whose primary role is to write lore for the lore nerds, as the arbitrator of their effectiveness, I think that speaks for itself. They didn’t even have to face a Falcon openly hostile to them, as came out of the CSM with Goons, so am I supposed to feel sorry for them? I mean, MOA’s whole shtick for years was fighting against the odds, but somehow Falcon’s words were too much? If actually true, and I will accept your word on it since it is really a statement against interest, that is just eye-rolling level of dumb, letting wanna-be tough guy Falcon get you down.

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  33. Gevlon

    @Wilhelm: Falcon’s words were enough to convince them that the new approach of contesting Sov was a bad idea. They didn’t say “give up fighting Goons”, they said “forget about timers, just keep killing their ratters until they all ragequit”.

    Falcon is not a tough GUY. He is a tough GOD (for your characters and in-game assets). He can ban and unban anyone (he decided what shall happen with the Goon monument vandals) with a click and the EULA is clear, CCP can ban anyone at its discretion. Someone who wants to play EVE must not mess with him.

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  34. SynCaine

    He did what he did because he was on Reddit as he tends to be, and there was a comical post with you involved that he threw a comment at, and then he continued to respond because you rage-posted multiple times about it on your blog. If you don’t respond (ha), Falcon doesn’t keep posting, so if you honestly believe what MoA told you (ha), then you yourself are responsible for killing your own pet project.

    But of course you see more into it all because you need something to justify all your work being blown up by Lenny, but no matter how much you try to dig, everyone but you sees what happened all around. You accomplished nothing but comedy, Lenny moved Goons south, and Goons are still one of the strongest groups in EVE.

    Like

  35. Gevlon

    @Syncaine: FINALLY, after 10+ comments you at least write something on topic! Yay! Let’s celebrate!

    So you agree that my project was killed by Falcon, you just don’t think he was working for Goons, he was just after me for daring to respond to his initial insult instead of taking it as a bitch “oh this was funny ha-ha-ha”, AFTER Goons already used it for propaganda.

    Another questions for you:
    – how was covering up the monument vandalism not favoritism? (he let the vandals go with a 3 months ban and he lied to the media and the community that it wasn’t Goons)
    – how was giving CCP IP to Goons for the propaganda book was not favoritism?
    – how was unbanning Lenny after banned for RMT despite the public protest of the head of security not favoritism? (not for Goons, but for the new winner, IWI)

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  36. SynCaine

    No, I said you killed your project by rage-posting. Falcon was just an excuse you used. Completely unrelated to any of that, MoA ops stopped because the sov system changed, and even with a spread-out Imperium, MoA wasn’t capable of doing more than killing ratters (something that every alliance faces daily and isn’t a big deal to anyone). Conversations are much easier if you read and comprehend what people write.

    And you keep thinking that Falcon casually posting about you on Reddit is some unique snowflake moment for you, when it’s just not. Falcon, and CCP in general, post about players often. The only difference here is you lied and raged about Falcon over multiple blog posts, while most people just take the joke and continue on. But not only did you rage, you knowingly started trying to get yourself banned via lies, because again rather than admit failure via Lenny, you would rather spin ‘alternative facts’ for +likes on a blog.

    As for your tinfoil questions, you do realize there was another book that CCP gave the IP to, right? How does that fit into your narrative? I see you moved the goal posts for Lenny beating you, so curious how you move them for the Empires book vs the Goons book?

    Like

  37. Gevlon

    @Syncaine: so you say CCP changed Sov System to save Goons exactly when Falcon was insulting me? What a coincidence!

    What exactly did I lie about Falcon? In my first reply post I only quoted Sion! Yes, I realize that most people just “move on”, and I fully understand that this is Falcon expected, that I “move on” from hunting Goons. That’s kind of the problem: CCP telling players what kind of politics is allowed and what is not.

    I was pretty clear why I left: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2016/04/the-long-march-to-deklein-too-long.html

    “So the goal I set four years ago were met: now everyone in EVE accepts that “money = power” and “high stats groups are the useful ones, not the ones with lots of friends or media coverage”. Am I happy? Of course I am.

    Am I also bitter and “salty”? Yes I am. No, not to IWI and TISHU, I’m grateful to them for proving my point. But I’m not a perfect rational who needs nothing but his ideas to complete. I have enough competitive in me to wish this victory to be mine. My money, my group. Goons should have fallen in September after the MoA push, people should celebrate MoA and post silly Godfather images about me and not TISHU and IWI. But this was taken from us by the corrupted Falcon. Some other corrupted devs killed the sandbox with New Jita, so I won’t even have another chance to bring a new project to victory (you neither). ”

    I was HAPPY about IWI proving my point. I didn’t even know of any “Lenny”. But after I left he started to make some book celebrating himself, and then I threw some posts after him and then waited for a legal precedent so I can force CCP to ban him. So stealing my spotlight didn’t really work out for that little shit, but that’s beyond the point. The point is that Lenny always was an irrelevant RMT-er. The only relevant thing about him is his unban, which is clear corruption.

    What other book? Never heard of it. Probably because Falcon didn’t spend most of his time promoting it.

    Like

  38. SynCaine

    CCP changed the sov system to save Goons, which is why Goons are in the South now. Amazing analysis! Even better, CCP picked Lenny to win, so they didn’t release citadels until after the Casino War. It really was Falcon all along, damn Gevlon, you were right about that just like you were right about New Jita or the true effectiveness of tackle titans and skillbook hauling!

    That quote of yours is hilarious though, because I know you honestly believe you are the reason people understand money = power in EVE, despite that being an accepted fact long before you even heard of EVE. And it also shows why you still don’t understand why you failed and why Lenny succeeded. Sure he had far more ISK than you, but he also wasn’t a comedy act forced to employ nobodies. He was respected, and so was able to talk to groups of power like PL/NC and others, and so along with his ISK, he was able to get things done. That’s why Goons are in the south while still being a major power, while MoA are now laughable renter pets and you remain an EVE meme.

    That you aren’t aware of the Empires of EVE book isn’t a surprise, but it would have gone a long way in explaining EVE to you so you’d have fewer of these embarrassments to rage over.

    Like

  39. Gevlon

    Goons are defeated because they failed the $150K book and lost the graces of Falcon and the rest of CCP. Not because of me and especially not because of that RMT-ing nobody. I was wrong to believe that I – or anyone – affected the stories, only CCP did that.

    But since you are back to offtopic insults (and unlike Falcon, you are pretty bad in that), let me try to lead you back to the topic (which is “CCP Picks Winners” as the title says) with another copy-paste:

    Another questions for you:
    – how was covering up the monument vandalism not favoritism? (he let the vandals go with a 3 months ban and he lied to the media and the community that it wasn’t Goons)
    – how was giving CCP IP to Goons for the propaganda book was not favoritism?
    – how was unbanning Lenny after banned for RMT despite the public protest of the head of security not favoritism? (not for Goons, but for the new winner, IWI)

    Like

  40. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Gevlon – You keep assuming that Goons are one unified entity marching in lock step and that all of their actions in-game and out of game are the actions of all and all are responsible and involved. That isn’t even close to reality. Individuals vandalized the monument, not all Goons as you seem to imply.

    Also, CCP wasn’t “giving” the IP to Goons, not for any definition of “giving” I would ever consider. Did they “give” the IP to Andrew Groen to write his book?

    CCP expected to get paid (but not $150K) and expected the resulting book to bring positive attention to the game. And CCP retained all of its rights. But the Kickstarter was rolled out badly, had an unlikely high goal (in excess of the highest literary Kickstarter ever by a large margin) and Reddit shat all over it. The Kickstarter failed, as I predicted it would in the first 24 hours, and the Reddit backlash made sure that CCP didn’t want any part of it going forward. Favoritism didn’t enter into it. Ask Rixx Javix how much CCP “gives” away.

    You got me at unbanning IWI though… all I can imagine is that null sec wars bring attention to the game in a way nothing else does, so they didn’t want to stifle any good publicity. But Lenny got his in the end, now didn’t he?

    Like

  41. SynCaine

    Incursion fleet taking a break, which sadly means no more feeding Gevlon to keep talking about something he promised himself he wouldn’t anymore to the entertainment of us all. Was fun, and for a bit Gevlon was able to do the one thing he was always good at in EVE; provide Goons content, so thanks for that. Now excuse me, I have to go back to playing with the tens of thousands of other ‘defeated’ Goons in the most economically powerful null region in the game.

    Like

  42. Gevlon

    @Wilhelm: the individuals are still within Goonswarm (saying they should have used mercury for more damage: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fhwfd/mittani_is_mia_spirit_continues_to_wane_shittier/), so we can assume that “Goons” support this kind of behavior. Also, I didn’t expect Goonswarm to be disbanded over it. But Falcon flat out lied to everyone to protect the “honor” of Goonswarm. Not “refused to name Goons”, people assumed it were Goons and he said, no it wasn’t: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4595532#post4595532

    The book was supposed to be written by Jeff Edwards, using submissions of players, using Kickstarter Funds and CCP IP. There was absolutely no reason for The Mittani be involved in this. He didn’t contribute to the book in any way, he was just given a share for nothing.

    “Favoritism didn’t enter into it. Ask Rixx Javix how much CCP “gives” away.” is kind of funny. I mean you accept in one sentence that it’s hard to get CCP IP and that it’s not favoritism that Goons got it – for absolutely no contribution.

    “all I can imagine is that null sec wars bring attention to the game in a way nothing else does” So you mean they unbanned an RMT-er with the VERY PURPOSE to wage war on Goons? How is that NOT “CCP picks winners”?

    Also, Lenny didn’t “get” his end. What he was meant to get was his Perimiter citadel monopoly: https://imperium.news/citadels-dispersing-market-hubs/ Too bad that 6 weeks after I found a legal precedent against his practices and threatened CCP with a lawsuit: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2016/10/weekend-minipost-oh-its-on.html
    5 days later Lenny was banned. I’m sure he’d still be around, booking 10T/month if not for that.

    Like

  43. Wilhelm Arcturus Post author

    @Gevlon – I am mostly interested in how you (and Dinsdale) insist how CCP “picked” Goons as winners and yet how Goons themselves see CCP as picking their opponents as winners consistently throughout the last decade.

    That link is to an post from Falcon about a sticker placed on the monument that did no damage. So I am not clear what you think CCP or Falcon or Goons should have been doing. That seems to be raising a fuss over nothing. If you’re outraged over that, then you’re just looking for things to be mad about. As for his statement, he seems to be saying what I said, that individuals did it and it wasn’t some Goonswarm sanctioned action. That looks accurate to me.

    On the Kickstarter, you don’t know how it was setup, who got Jeff Edwards into it, and what the real deal was. I don’t either, and likely we never will because the whole thing was handled so badly it never had a hope. Again, getting mad because somebody tried to work a deal and failed seems silly. CCP thought the deal sounded okay as pitched, then it went to hell and they pulled support. Happens all the time. Meanwhile Rixx was trying to make a game at one point that was pretty heavily influenced by CCP (something about Drifters) without permission or credit and was given a cease and desist letter. They don’t give stuff away, they want something, and they pull the plug when they don’t get it. It is like they are a business.

    On the Casino War front, as I said, I fly with a group who think CCP stacks the cards against them all the time. They see CCP not picking winners so much as picking Goons to lose when they can, or such is the narrative. But I am not convinced either way. CCP likely wanted a war far more than they cared about a winner.

    And, in the end, Lenny got banned didn’t he? That is what I meant by “he got his,” which is short for “he got what was coming to him.” You claiming to have caused CCP to act though, that is a stretch. The Valve story was in the mainstream gaming news before you brought it up. And we’re both assuming causation because of it, when it may just be correlation. CCP was also moving more operations to London at the time, so a faced different legal system than in Iceland, and was set to introduce the whole Alpha Clone free to play plan and may have seen unlimited free ISK mules as too big of a problem to want to deal with.

    I like theories, and a good conspiracy theory always interests me, but life has taught me that things are generally more mundane or accidental than we would like to think. (Also, if this post gets 15 more comments it will be the most commented upon post on the blog, though looking at that comment threat, that is not a milestone that one might necessarily envy.)

    Like

  44. Gevlon

    @Wilhelm: At first devs did NOT pick Goons. They picked BoB and helped them even with flat out handouts (not nearly as bad as citadels, but still). This set a culture that persisted.

    Secondly, for monetizing purposes, The Mittani collected large amount of useless players into CFC. I’m not saying all CFC was useless, just that a huge fat was carried. For example, how dumb one had to be to fly his in-alliance freighter to Jita while under perma-dec for a year?! Since these players saw defeat after defeat even when Goonswarm won (by losing their ship to a gatecamp getting lost from the fleet, or dying to MoA in Dek while Goons were deployed to Provi), EVERYTHING seems biased against them.

    If CCP wanted war above all else, why did Falcon did his best to shoot down my war against Goons?

    Maybe I didn’t cause Lenny’s ban. But it was outside pressure (from Valve case or whatnot) that forced them, otherwise they’d let it him have the citadels (which were set up for him at the first place).

    Like

  45. Rhivre (@Rhivre)

    @gevlon ” At first devs did NOT pick Goons. They picked BoB and helped them even with flat out handouts (not nearly as bad as citadels, but still). ”

    Then what makes you think they are still not assisting BoB instead of Goons? The tinfoil about CCP being on the side of Goons bears little resemblance to actions taken (if they were on the side of ex-BOB, then IWI and Casinos would still be around).

    Falcon did not “do his best” to shoot down your war against Goons. He made 2 (?) comments on Reddit, which you then spun to be him potentially handing out your API to your enemies, and claiming that he was standing round the water cooler at CCP HQ with devs laughing and planning what they would do next.

    Like

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